Practical Theology

Twelve Reflections on Twelve Interviews on Christian Nationalism

November 27, 2023 by Andy Naselli

David Schrock—along with either Trent Hunter, Brad Green, or Steve Wellum—recently conducted twelve interviews about Christian nationalism for Christ Over All. I copied the transcripts of those twelve interviews into a Word document, and that document is 200 pages single-spaced. That’s a lot to sort through. After listening to the twelve interviews and reading the transcripts, I offer the following twelve reflections or observations in this article:

Naselli, Andrew David. “Twelve Reflections on Twelve Interviews on Christian Nationalism.” Christ Over All, 27 November 2023.

Here are the twelve headings:

Reflection 1. The interviewees are basically within views 4 and 5 in my taxonomy of political theology.
Reflection 2. The interviewees disagree on whether it would be good to have a Christian government.
Reflection 3. The interviewees agree that America had a Christian founding.
Reflection 4. The interviewees know what time it is.
Reflection 5. The interviewees agree that a Christian culture in a society is good.
Reflection 6. The interviewees basically agree on the strategy of what faithful Christians should do right now.
Reflection 7. The interviewees disagree on how to talk about the Ten Commandments with reference to political theology.
Reflection 8. The interviewees disagree on how to define “good” and “bad” in Romans 13:3.
Reflection 9. The interviewees disagree on whether the label “Christian nationalism” is helpful.
Reflection 10. The interviewees who fit within view 5 do not put most of the load-bearing weight for their view on postmillennialism or theonomy.
Reflection 11. The interviewees disagree on whether some nations (other than Israel under the Mosaic covenant) may be in a covenant with God.
Reflection 12. The interviewees all interacted as Christian gentlemen and modeled how to discuss political theology.

You may listen to Kevin McClure read my article on the Christ Over All podcast here. (For block quotes, the podcast features audio clips from the original interviews.)

Update on 12/4/2023: Christ Over All released a 68-minute podcast episode in which I discuss this article with David Schrock and Steve Wellum.

Related: Andrew David Naselli, “What Is the Spectrum of Major Views on Political Theology? A Proposed Taxonomy of Seven Views on Religion and Government,” Christ Over All, 10 November 2023.

What Is the Spectrum of Major Views on Political Theology? A Proposed Taxonomy of Seven Views on Religion and Government

November 10, 2023 by Andy Naselli

Christ Over All has been consistently publishing outstanding articles and interviews.

The theme for October was “‘Just One More Thing’: Getting the Facts on Christian Nationalism(s).”

The theme for November is “Toward Biblical Nationhood: A Baptist View of Church and State.” David Schrock introduces it at the end his article “October Intermission: From Christian Nationalism(s) to Biblical Nationhood.”

I am planning to contribute two articles this month. Later this month I plan to reflect on the interviews on Christian nationalism. But first I am attempting to add some clarity by framing a debated topic with this new article:

Andrew David Naselli. “What Is the Spectrum of Major Views on Political Theology? A Proposed Taxonomy of Seven Views on Religion and Government.” Christ Over All, 10 November 2023.

*43-minute audio version (minus footnotes—read by Kevin McClure)

Here’s the outline for the article:

Part 1. Starting with Definitions: Religion, Politics, and Political Theology

Part 2. Seven Views on Religion and Government

- Introductory Qualification
- View 1. Secular Suppression: The secular government suppresses religion.
- View 2. Religious Separation: Religion must radically separate from the government.
- View 3. Religious Neutrality: The government must be religiously neutral.
- View 4. Religious Influence: The government should not promote only one particular religion, yet religion may influence the government within limited parameters.
- View 5. Christian Government: The government and religion overlap.
- View 6. Religion over Government: Religion governs the government and directs the government to enforce religion.
- View 7. Government over Religion: The government governs and enforces religion.

Part 3. Seven Concluding Reflections

- 1. My taxonomy is describing rather than evaluating.
- 2. Trying to systematize the various views on political theology is challenging, but that should not prevent us from trying.
- 3. There is a lot more to say.
- 4. My taxonomy may mislead one to think that the various views on the spectrum are distinct in neat and tidy ways.
- 5. Christians are becoming more interested in political theology because what seemed to be a neutral public square is now an increasingly polarized battleground.
- 6. Christians should beware of prematurely separating from each other based on different political theologies.
- 7. No civil government will be flawless until King Jesus returns.

Updates:

11/13/2023: Christ Over All released a 66-minute podcast episode in which I discuss this article with David Schrock and Steve Wellum.
11/27/2023: Christ Over All published my article “Twelve Reflections on Twelve Interviews on Christian Nationalism.”
12/4/2023: Christ Over All released a 68-minute podcast episode in which I discuss my article “Twelve Reflections on Twelve Interviews on Christian Nationalism” with David Schrock and Steve Wellum.
3/12/2025: Steve Wellum, editor of Southern Seminary’s journal, reprinted the article in an issue devoted to Christian nationalism: Naselli, Andrew David. “What Is the Spectrum of Major Views on Political Theology? A Proposed Taxonomy of Seven Views on Religion and Government.” Southern Baptist Journal of Theology 28.2 (2024): 168–90.

Home Fires Podcast with Abigail Dodds and Jenni Naselli

October 24, 2023 by Andy Naselli

My wife is joining Abigail Dodds for the next season of the “Home Fires” podcast.

The first episode is “Introducing Jenni Naselli.” Here’s the podcast description:

With Tilly away caring for a new baby, homeschooling littles, working behind the scenes for a new coffee shop endeavor, and generally tending her actual home fires, Jenni Naselli graciously joins Abigail and agrees to be put in the hot seat for an interview. Jenni shares how she came to trust Christ as well as the story of how she met and married her husband, Andy. Get ready to absorb some helpful wisdom as you hear how Jenni’s parents carefully and tenderly shepherded her through her young adult years. We don’t have to do exactly as Jenni’s parents did, but we can learn so much from the godly principles they exhibit.

I hope it encourages you.

The Drivetrain: The MacArthur Center’s New Podcast Episode on Theological Triage

September 10, 2023 by Andy Naselli

The MacArthur Center’s new podcast episode is on theological triage: “The Drivetrain.”

on Apple podcasts
on Spotify

Austin Duncan and his team produce this podcast with excellence. They obviously put a lot of work into their podcast episodes because they are clear, engaging, and high-quality in both content and form. They piece together various interviews and add sound effects and music. It’s high-caliber audio journalism—like NPR but with good content. It’s the best quality podcast I know of in confessional evangelical circles.

It was my pleasure to contribute to “The Drivetrain” episode on theological triage. Al Mohler popularized this terminology for distinguishing the importance of Bible teachings in his 2005 article “A Call for Theological Triage and Christian Maturity.”

Here’s how I like to present three levels of importance (a version of this table appears in my forthcoming book Predestination: An Introduction, p. 18):

It’s easy to misunderstand and misapply that taxonomy. That’s what “The Drivetrain” is about.

Don’t Believe Culture’s Lies about Men and Women: A Review of Rosaria Butterfield’s “Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age”

September 1, 2023 by Andy Naselli

Here’s my review of a new book on human sexuality:

Naselli, Andrew David. “Don’t Believe Culture’s Lies about Men and Women: A Review of Rosaria Butterfield’s Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.” American Reformer, 1 September 2023.

From the introduction:

Rosaria Butterfield used to be a lesbian activist who lived with a woman partner while serving as a tenured professor of English and women’s studies at Syracuse University in New York. Now she is a Christian who is married to a Presbyterian pastor and who invests her time as a homeschool mom and grandmother and as a hospitable neighbor in North Carolina. (When she wrote this book, her four adopted children spanned ages sixteen to thirty-four.) The title of her new book specifies what she is warning against: Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age (Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2023).

In the book review, I …

summarize the five lies
suggest three small ways I think Butterfield’s book could be even better
conclude with ten features I appreciate about Butterfield’s book

What If Your Neighbor Asks You to Call Her a Him? An Interview with a Suburban Christian Dad

August 28, 2023 by Andy Naselli

New article:

Naselli, Andrew David. “What If Your Neighbor Asks You to Call Her a Him? An Interview with a Suburban Christian Dad.” American Reformer, 28 August 2023.

From the introduction:

LGBT is a reigning ideology in America right now, and its tentacles are spreading and thickening as they squeeze soul after soul. You might expect this in the bluest parts of the country, but it is also happening in red suburbs and counties. It is happening everywhere.

This is a true story about it happening this summer in a middle-class Minneapolis suburb to some dear friends in my church. To respect the privacy of the people in this story, I’ll use fictitious names and be vague about some details. I’ll tell the story in an interview format with my friend Jonathan.

I end the interview by recommending some helpful resources on transgenderism:

Riccardi, Mike. Male and Female He Created Them: Part 1 and Part 2. Grace Community Church, April 23 and 30, 2023. This is sound teaching on the transgender delusion. Riccardi explains five truths about gender: (1) granted by our Creator, (2) grounded in biology, (3) a gift of God’s loving care, (4) the goodness of the body, and (5) the glory of our distinctiveness.
Butterfield, Rosaria. Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age. Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2023. Butterfield, a former lesbian activist, shows why LGBTQ+ ideology is incompatible with Christianity. She gives wise and practical advice about how to love family and friends who are captured by this ideology. See also Rosaria Butterfield, “Why I No Longer Use Transgender Pronouns—and Why You Shouldn’t, Either,” Reformation21, 3 April 2023.
Walker, Andrew T. God and the Transgender Debate: What Does the Bible Actually Say about Gender Identity. 2nd ed. Washington, D.C.: The Good Book, 2022. This helpful overview is by the managing editor of WORLD Opinions and a professor of Christian ethics and public theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. See also Andrew T. Walker, “Christians Volunteering Pronouns? Capitulation to Falsehood Is Not Christian Kindness,” American Reformer, 19 August 2022.
Burk, Denny, David Closson, and Colin Smothers. Male and Female He Created Them: A Study on Gender and Sexuality. Fearn, Scotland: Christian Focus, 2023. This 125-page book is an eight-week study for small groups.