a guest post by Jenni Naselli
1. John Piper and Bethlehem Baptist Church have Children Desiring God.
2. The Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International national conference this week has “When I grow up, I want to be a fundamentalist.”
Andy Naselli
Thoughts on Theology
Andy and Jenni,
I giggled and frowned when I saw that…aaiii!
I’m pretty sure it was a joke, but I could be wrong.
It’s not a joke. I’ve confirmed it from multiple sources. E.g., (1) I heard via someone else who was present that this children’s program was announced on Sunday morning at Bethel Baptist Church in Schaumburg. (2) Greg Lincott affirms that this is no joke.
The saddest reality to this is so apparent in that one ministry desires to make their children seek after and treasure and pursue Christ and the other, desires their children to seek to sustain a movement via their children. May we learn from this post to make our children zealous after their Treasure (God) and not fleeting treasures (i.e. religious fellowship).
I think I’m missing something — would you prefer — “When I grow up, I want to be a theological liberal?”
Seriously, this is a conference for fundamentalists; as such, it seems a rightful perogative for them to desire that their children become fundamentalists as well.
In my opinion, this is a gnat, at worst, folks.
So to not be a fundamentalist automatically makes one a theological liberal?
Is it really a “rightful prerogative” to want the emphasis for one’s children to be on a fallible man-made movement rather than an unchanging holy God?
Matt,
It’s a fundamentalist conference; it’s really a matter of context, occasion, and emphasis, not simply emphasis.
They are emphasizing this for the conference in question. It’s not that this is the emphasis of the childrens’ program at a specific church over a long period of time.
You wrote, “So to not be a fundamentalist automatically makes one a theological liberal?”
That’s not what I was trying to communicate. I was trying to find out what is frustrating everyone about this — as it turns out, it seems that it’s the word “fundamentalist.”
I see your point about it being a conference for fundamentalists, but it would still seem that the matter of emphasis discussed here, whatever its context and occasion, is still very noteworthy.
The word “fundamentalist” doesn’t matter – nor does “Calvinist” I might add. That’s not what frustrates me.
Life isn’t about fundamentalism or Calvinism. Life is about knowing God. It’s ironic to me that in an effort to refute/take a stand against/divert young people away from “the horrible new Calvinism” people (e.g. Piper/Desiring God Ministries), “Fundamentalists” are falling into a trap they’ve set for themselves in putting the emphasis on their movement instead of their God.
While the title sounds like a joke to me (not denying that it is the actual name), I am more concerned with what is “under the hood.” I think the story (and complaining) would be different if they are singing songs about fundamentalism (the movement) instead of teaching the importance of the biblical inspiration and inerrancy, the virgin birth, resurrection, ect. If all they are trying to do is indoctrinate the children to be apart of the fundamentalist movement, I am strongly opposed. However, if they are (as the title may be read) seeking to encourage children to be fundamentalists (believe and live as if the fundamentals are true and even contend of them as crucial to their lives), I would applaud the program (still not preferring the title).
Proverbs 18:13
For His Glory,
Christian Markle
I stand corrected. My apologies. I took it as a joke, but I suppose I was being naive. Sad.
I appreciate the critiques (honestly, I am always thankful for the communal aspect in refining thoughts and perspectives). However, as I have watched and observed the fundamentalist movement (not just this single isolated circumstance) I recall various events or occasions where they have called the younger fund(s). to stay in the movement while warning them about others (namely, Piper, Sovereign Grace, etc). The most recent was at the regional FBFI meeting in NC when Danny Sweatt made some remarks calling the younger men to stay in the movement. For me the reality isn’t that the movement wants to have a conference or that they desire to have their children remain in the movement (per se). But some of the rhetoric that has recently come from the fundamentalist movement towards other brothers/sisters in Christendom who are not apart of fundamentalism (Piper, et al) is unfortunate and despairing.
I can’t wait to be a Fundamentalist when I grow up. Better enjoy my liberty while I’m young, I guess. Guinness anyone?
I’ll share that Guinness.
But I think I’ll stick to desiring God in my old age if it’s all the same to you.
I can almost here it now… Ron Hamilton’s famous song “I Want To Marry Daddy When I Grow Up” being sung now as…
“I want to be a fundamentalist when I grow up,
I’ll be as good as any one could be,
I’ll brush my teeth and comb my hair,
I’ll show him that I really care,
If I can be fundamentalist when I….grow……UP!”
Jenni,
It is a provocative title and post.
Indeed.
:-O No way. NO WAY!! Is this like a VBS program?
I . . . I don’t even know where to begin. I’m stunned.
This is more than simply a “gnat.” This represents much of what’s wrong w/ Fundamentalism today, i.e., the dedication to a movement & the elevation of an supposed application (separation) to the level of the New Fundamental. This inaccurate & unhealthy emphases is highlighted when juxtaposed w/ the DG cirriculum.
Hmmm…do I want our children to grow up to be a Fundy (or insert any other movement here) or do I want my children to grow cherishing the infinite glory of God? The answer is obvious.
I guarantee if the PCA came out w/ a cirriculum entitled “I want to be a Presby when I grow up” or the SBC came out w/ one w/ the the term Baptist, then the Fundys would be up in arms, using that as fodder to charge their unhealthy preoccupation w/ separation.
Jason, you might be able to want to be a Baptist when you grow up, but if you grew up on the inside, you’re a Presbyterian before you know how to pronounce it. ;)
If you can’t win over the young guys (plan a–failed), brainwash the children (plan b).
Does anyone actually know what the content of the FBFI children’s program was (what is “under the hood” as Christian Markle said)? Was it a man-centered brainwashing session, or was the title just in fun because of the conference it was associated with? Unless someone in this pile-on here has a clue what is actually going on in the subject children’s program, then yes maybe you are straining at gnats over just a title. A little charity please.
And Jason Cornwall, take a deap breath….
All: My church’s summer children’s program is called “Operation Space”. Does that mean Dave Doran is promoting planetology or some other godless theology? Or maybe is it possible that the title is just for fun and/or a little tongue-in-cheek?
Let me challenge you all to remember that all the people that you tear up here on this blog are all men who desire to please God and are undeserving, saved sinners just as you and me. You will live with these people for eternity and all the differences will be cleared up and it wont matter who was right and who was wrong but who sacrificially served Christ.
Pr 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Let’s make sure we are not sowing discord among the brethren over trivial issues. Make sure your “Spirit Filled” position matches your “Spirit Filled” Disposition.
Just a thought.
It’s a stupid pointless title, but let’s distinguish between a longtime curriculum and a 3 day conference. I think it’s a ridiculous and relatively pointless title, but I don’t think it is fair to compare it to Children Desiring God.
I know Andy (slightly) personally and know that he is generally gracious. However humorous juxtaposing the two TITLES of a program might sound it was a slap in the face caricaturization to disparage a movement and the FBFI, which has many soundly biblical preachers and programs in which kids are being instilled with sound biblical teaching. As Kent McCune aptly said – after pages of nonsense attacks we still don’t know the actual content of what was being taught to the kids.
I could mock Inter-city for having their elementary kids make posters about the different dispensations (which I saw at SGI one year – by the way I graduated from DBTS and agree with dispensationalism so it is not my point that I disagree with it so don’t twist my illustration that way) and wryly say that Piper is more concerned about his kids glorifying God while Inter-city and DBTS are focused on other things like Dispensationalism (implying that they don’t care whether their kids glorify God).
Why do we have senseless blogging that is nothing other than pick pick pick pick (what these fundy bashers accuse fundy’s of always doing) when it would be refreshing to have pages praising God for the wonderful messages that were preached at the FBFI conference by Minnick (and others). No, the only thing we hear is bash bash bash the FBFI (I am not advocating that we ignore some of the outrageous statements made by Sweat or Phelps mischaracterization of MacArthur’s position on Lordship).
I would hope that my church/movement would seek to properly teach my children BEFORE they grow up so that they will continue to stand true to what the Bible teaches concerning the doctrines for which historic Fundamentalism stands – inclulding separation (which is what the title really implies). It is vitally important for these kids growing up in the movement to know what it means to be a biblical separatist, which I firmly believe is just as solid doctrinally as teaching them about the dispensations. They should know while they are growing up what it means to be separated from worldliness, false teaching and disobedient brothers = i.e. holiness and sanctification.
Jeremy and Kevin (and probably some others), I think you’re missing the point of the juxtaposition. What is striking is that anyone would ever even consider using such a name.
Further, the post, which simply juxtaposes two facts without comment, is categorized as humor. Humor is “the quality of being amusing or comic.” My wife found (and I agree with her) the name of the program amusing and comical, esp. when juxtaposed with “Children Desiring God.”